Talk:Somaliland

Skip to table of contents

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Somaliland article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4: 4 months

This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

Somaliland was a Sports and recreation good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.

Article milestones
Date	Process	Result
January 7, 2008	Good article nominee	Not listed

Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on May 18, 2011, and May 18, 2016.

Somaliland Top‑importance

	Somaliland portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Somaliland, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Somaliland on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SomalilandWikipedia:WikiProject SomalilandTemplate:WikiProject SomalilandWikiProject Somaliland articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.

Countries

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Countries, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of countries on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.CountriesWikipedia:WikiProject CountriesTemplate:WikiProject Countriescountry articles

WikiProject Countries to-do list:

Here are some tasks awaiting attention:

Article requests : Check out the article alerts; see if anything catches your fancy.
Cleanup : clean-up listing for Countries
Stubs : de-stub articles in Category:Stubs by region.
Other : add {{WPCountries}} to talk pages of related articles, and assess.

Limited recognition High‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Limited recognition, a WikiProject dedicated to improving the coverage of entities with limited recognition on Wikipedia by contributing to articles relating to unrecognized states and separatist movements. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join our WikiProject by signing your name at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.Limited recognitionWikipedia:WikiProject Limited recognitionTemplate:WikiProject Limited recognitionLimited recognition articles
High	This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.

Africa Top‑importance

	Africa portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Africa, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Africa on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AfricaWikipedia:WikiProject AfricaTemplate:WikiProject AfricaAfrica articles
Top	This article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
	This article was created or improved during the "African 10,000 Challenge", which started in 1 September 2016 and is still continuing. You can help!

Heraldry and vexillology

Somaliland is within the scope of the Heraldry and vexillology WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of heraldry and vexillology. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.Heraldry and vexillologyWikipedia:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillologyTemplate:WikiProject Heraldry and vexillologyheraldry and vexillology articles

Warning: active arbitration remedies

The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Horn of Africa (defined as including Ethiopia, Somalia, Eritrea, Djibouti, and adjoining areas if involved in related disputes), which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:

You must be logged-in to an extended confirmed account (granted automatically to accounts with 500 edits and an age of 30 days)
You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on this article (except in limited circumstances)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

Somaliland

Somaliland is a country not state, you have to change it, 2A02:8071:2280:82E0:70A5:7EB7:2F59:25A9 (talk) 07:10, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

These are generally interchangeable words, is there a reason you feel one fits better? CMD (talk) 11:06, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There is a broad diversity to the English language but what CMD says is true, in this context they mean the same thing. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 18:03, 31 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Fix the description of the state

Somaliland is a state within Somalia and there’s no any evidence of it being a republic. This page is misleading and should be corrected by an admin. No single country in the world recognizes it and we need to make the necessary corrections by describing in this page simply as a state within Somalia. A political party doesn’t get to decide a part of a country to be another country simply because of opposing the other party in the country. United Nations decide that. Also, I would like to get the part about the size of the state to be corrected that’s claimed to be 176,120 square kilometers. Please read my references in the links. Recently there’s been a war against the political party in this State by another state within the borders they self claim to be their country called SSKhaayumo, the Somaliland political party SNM was defeated and that state is on the northern part of Somalia and officially now recognized as one of the federal states of Somalia by the Federal Government of Somalia which is the only country the United Nations recognizes in this region. This makes Somalilands claim of being a country null and void. Keeping in mind of the fact that no single member of the United Nations recognizes it, why is it allowed that this page reads misleading description and it’s locked from efforts to make corrections?

SSCKhaatumo defeats Somaliland: Khatumo State#:~:text=Following the capture of several,and Guumays in western Sool.

Somalia recognizes SSCKhaatumo: https://thesomalidigest.com/somali-government-makes-a-strategic-move-by-recognizing-ssc-khaatumo/

https://www.hiiraan.com/news4/2021/Nov/184586/uk_says_will_not_recognize_somaliland_unless_it_agrees_with_somalia_on_statehood.aspx

https://somalilandstandard.com/uk-will-not-recognize-somaliland-unless-somalia-agrees-somalilands-statehood/ Nuure4587 (talk) 17:32, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

De facto states can exist even in the absence of widespread recognition.

Good point re the area, I've added a tag to the article. Alaexis_¿question? 20:37, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The tittle should rather read officially a state within Somalia but self claimed independent. Because it’s not official that it’s a country as in no single UN nation recognizes it. So that description is misleading to me and many people. Also the fact that a whole unionist state that defeated this secessionist state recently has emerged from within the borders they claim and that region is called SSCKhaatumo. This state is officially added to the federal states of Somalia by the federal government, I’ve added references in my topic. This state nullifies their claim of the whole region. For now, it would be more fit to update the page to say a state within Somalia that’s self claimed and also correct the size from 176,120 square kilometers to 166,120 square kilometers because in November, the Khaatumo State's forces had driven the Somaliland army out of the entire region of SSC, spanning over an area of about 100,000 sq km, over half of the 176,000-odd sq km that used to be under Somaliland's control. The SSC-Khaatumo administration also began taxation that month.

refrence: https://peoplesdispatch.org/2024/01/12/somalilands-unraveling-hastened-by-ethiopia-port-lease-deal/#:~:text=By%20November%2C%20the%20Khaatumo%20State's,also%20began%20taxation%20that%20month.

in this article, you can see the size of Khaatumo state falling within 100,000 square km of the claimed region of Somaliland state.

https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatumo_State

https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2621587

https://dbpedia.org/page/Khatumo_State

https://hornobserver.com/articles/2415/Khaatumo-State-forces-capture-bases-outside-Laascaanood-as-Somaliland-forces-retreat

https://premium.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/khatumo.htm Nuure4587 (talk) 02:04, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

"United Nations decide that." I think you misunderstand the purpose and functions of the United Nations... It explicitly DOES NOT DO THAT. Horse Eye's Back (talk) 23:30, 23 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

For a country to be officially recognized it has to be through a collective act of the members of the United Nations. As of now, no single U.N nations recognizes Somaliland state of Somalia to be officially republic. So the description in this page is misleading and should be corrected.

U.N country profile of Somalia that includes Somaliland is 637,657 sq km.

referance: https://data.un.org/CountryProfile.aspx/_Docs/CountryProfile.aspx?crName=Somalia Nuure4587 (talk) 06:23, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Recognition is not dependent on UN recognition because the UN does not recognize states, there is no such "collective act of the members of the United Nations." Who told you this? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 16:20, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Update description

The description should rather read officially a state within Somalia but self claimed independent. Because it’s not official that it’s a country as in no single UN nation recognizes it. So that description is misleading to me and many people. Also the fact that a whole unionist state that defeated this secessionist state recently has emerged from within the borders they claim and that region is called SSCKhaatumo. This state is officially added to the federal states of Somalia by the federal government, I’ve added references in my topic. This state nullifies their claim of the whole region. For now, it would be more fit to update the page to say a state within Somalia that’s self claimed and also correct the size from 176,120 square kilometers to 66,120 square kilometers because in November, the Khaatumo State's forces had driven the Somaliland army out of the entire region of SSC, spanning over an area of about 100,000 sq km, over half of the 176,000-odd sq km that used to be under Somaliland's control. The SSC-Khaatumo administration also began taxation that month. in total the UN recognizes a surface area of 637,657 sq km for Somalia as a country and that includes Somaliland. Reference: https://data.un.org/CountryProfile.aspx/_Docs/CountryProfile.aspx?crName=Somalia

refrence: https://peoplesdispatch.org/2024/01/12/somalilands-unraveling-hastened-by-ethiopia-port-lease-deal/#:~:text=By%20November%2C%20the%20Khaatumo%20State's,also%20began%20taxation%20that%20month.

in this article, you can see the size of Khaatumo state of Somalia which is in north within the claimed territory of Somaliland with surface area of 100,000 square km of the claimed region of Somaliland state. https://simple.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khatumo_State

https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2621587

Somalia recognizes SSCKhaatumo state that stretches on land more than half the size of the territory the secessionist state Somaliland claims: https://thesomalidigest.com/somali-government-makes-a-strategic-move-by-recognizing-ssc-khaatumo/

https://horseedmedia.net/somali-federal-government-recognizes-new-ssc-khatumo-administration-383891

https://somalisignal.com/djibouti-hosts-ssc-khatumo-leader-sparking-new-tensions-with-somaliland/

https://dbpedia.org/page/Khatumo_State

https://hornobserver.com/articles/2415/Khaatumo-State-forces-capture-bases-outside-Laascaanood-as-Somaliland-forces-retreat

https://www.garoweonline.com/en/news/somalia/somalia-ssc-khatumo-warn-somaliland-over-future-invasions

https://premium.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/khatumo.htm Nuure4587 (talk) 02:05, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

What is the change regarding SSCKhaatumo being requested here? The map already designates a broad area as not controlled. CMD (talk) 05:41, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have provided references showing the recent news updates of the war and liberation forces that defeated this separatist govt of Somaliland state of Somalia. SSCKhaatumo controls the northern part of Somalia which the secessionist state claim and is a surface area of 100,000 sq km. The entire territory Somaliland government claims is 176,000 sq km. This makes it only 76,000 sq km. After the federal government of Somalia has added SSCKhaatumo to its federal states, this territory claim of 176,000 sq km is null. SSCKhaatumo which is an official state of Somalia rules this area of 100,000 sq km. This should be updated and corrected. The land surface area is misleading and the description that this is an official republic country is also incorrect. More than half of this area claimed by the separatist state is now under the rule of an official Somalia state of SSCKhaatumo. Refer to my links I provided as references. Nuure4587 (talk) 06:03, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We've never been able to get a good figure on actual size in the past. Could you point to an article which has the specific area? 100,000 sounds quite round. CMD (talk) 10:48, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I’ll leave references of articles that mentions clearly Separatist state losing 100,000 sq km to the new state that defeated them and emerged out of the territory they claim. The mentioned surface land size in this Somaliland Wikipedia page says 176,120 sq km. Since the SSCKhaatumo now defeated the secessionist army, they are now in control of 100,000 surface land of this 176,000 sq km. Here, read:

https://peoplesdispatch.org/2024/01/12/somalilands-unraveling-hastened-by-ethiopia-port-lease-deal/

https://myafricanmagazine.com/navigating-power-shifts-emergence-of-ssc-khaatumo-administration/

https://hornobserver.com/articles/2415/Khaatumo-State-forces-capture-bases-outside-Laascaanood-as-Somaliland-forces-retreat

lastly in this last article, you can clearly see the districts of Sool, Sanaag and Ayn are part of the SSCKhaatumo which this wikipedia page incorrectly claims it to be Somaliland when using such large land surface area

Read on:

https://premium.globalsecurity.org/military/world/war/khatumo.htm

I would like to repeat that SSCKhaatumo is a unionist state that now controls more than half of the land Somaliland is claiming and SSCKhaatumo is an official federal state of Somalia so it would not be part of Somaliland secessionist state and therefore land size need to be reduced here. Nuure4587 (talk) 14:05, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have adjusted as this source does give a rough area. CMD (talk) 15:58, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I do not see the update. It still shows 176,120 sq km.

Also, the beginning description should be updated to say that it’s officially a de facto state within Somalia that’s unrecognized internationally. Like the Wikipedia page of Taiwan link:Taiwan

The Taiwan page reads that it’s officially part of the Republic of China because the UN doesn’t recognize it. It would be the same for this secessionist state of Somalia and appropriate to use the same description here for Somaliland and say officially a de facto state within Somalia. Nuure4587 (talk) 16:37, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The update was this one. As for Taiwan, it is the Republic of China, I don't understand this comparison. CMD (talk) 16:47, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Also update the opening description of the page at the very top where it says “ It is located in the southern coast of the Gulf of Aden and bordered by Djibouti to the northwest, Ethiopia to the south and west, and Somalia to the east. Its claimed territory has an area of 176,120 square kilometres (68,000 sq mi),” update the territory size with 76,000 sq km.

As for the comparison with Taiwan, The very top introduction of the Taiwan page which is unrecognized state reads at the beginning introduction that it’s a Republic of China meaning not Republic of Taiwan as it’s not recognized yet. But for the Somaliland page, it reads the Republic of Somaliland instead of Somalia as that’s what it’s still recognized internationally as being part of Somalia. I would update it to say that it’s still part of Somalia officially to not mislead people. Nuure4587 (talk) 21:33, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The "claimed territory" is not 76,000 sq km. As for Taiwan, it is the Republic of China. They're the same entity, like Somaliland the the Republic of Somaliland. CMD (talk) 07:52, 28 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This other page State of Somaliland gives better and more accurate introduction at the very top of the beginning introduction where it reads “Somaliland, Officially the state of Somaliland” it’s not officially a republic. Get that corrected on this page that read it’s “Officially Republic” as it’s misleading. Nuure4587 (talk) 01:39, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An article that starts with The unraveling of Somaliland, a US and UK-backed separatist breakaway from northern Somalia, has been expedited by the decision of its president Muse Bihi Abdi to hand over part of its coastal land and sea to landlocked Ethiopia doesn't seem like a neutral source. But probably we don't have any other sources for now. Alaexis_¿question? 19:28, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This other page State of Somalilandof Somaliland state gives better and more accurate introduction at the very top of the beginning introduction where it reads “Somaliland, Officially the state of Somaliland” it’s not officially a republic. Get that corrected as it’s misleading. Nuure4587 (talk) 22:50, 24 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Misleading introductions

It seems like there are a lot of misleading info in the short introduction here. This other page State of Somaliland gives better and more accurate introduction than this one. For example, at the very top of the beginning introduction of this one reads “Somaliland, Officially the Republic of Somaliland” and the other one I linked here if you can compare, reads “Officially the State of Somaliland.” Which is correct as it’s not a republic yet. it seems like the admins here are ignoring these suggestions I’m making. I would get that corrected as it’s misleading. Nuure4587 (talk) 23:37, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Land size should be also updated in the beginning introduction

An admin made the correction with sources provided and added a rough land size here https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Somaliland&diff=prev&oldid=1242031407. The beginning short description of the page also needs to be updated with same land size and also say 76,000 sq km. Nuure4587 (talk) 23:43, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Somaliland's gdp and per capita update

somaliland's 2024 gdp: 6.583 Billion

and 2024 per capita: 1061$

reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Somaliland?wprov=sfla1 Ayanle2001 (talk) 19:43, 12 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Somaliland's disputed area and area size

the disputed area seems to be exaggerated the somaliland gov has near complete presence in sanaag region including the capital ceerigabo(erigavo) and western portions of sool region including the entirety of ainabo district and half of hudun district

and one more thing that is incorrect here is the area size, it says 76,000 km² you should recorrect that I say 176,000 km² Ayanle2001 (talk) 19:00, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have sources supporting these claims? Alaexis_¿question? 19:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 9 November 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

i have noticed that the a lot of history was removed from the infobox and that our history starts from 1750 isaaq sultanate,despite the land of punt *located in modern somaliland* the barbaria city like avalite and malao also being in modern somaliland,the ifat sultanate also being in somaliland and adal sultanate,i request these historical states be readded because they are an important part of our history,thank you and i hope you do as i requested. Samyatilius (talk) 10:44, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: It is not a history section, it is an independence section with some additional context. CMD (talk) 11:06, 9 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 18 November 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Somaliland is a break away region in Somalia, located in the northern regions of the country. Currently, the administration controls three regions in the north, (Awdal, Waqoyi Galbed parts of Togdheer and snall portion of Sanaag region) while the rest of the former British colony in under SSC administration (Sool, Buhodle in Togdheer and remained parts of Sanaag). Gulaid Hassan (talk) 22:22, 18 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. CMD (talk) 01:52, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Please change this to the first paragraph of the introduction, this is now the reality on the ground right now. 196.96.13.183 (talk) 05:24, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We would need to reflect it with sources in the body first. CMD (talk) 05:39, 19 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]